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Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5, Page 6, Page 7, Page 8 Content |} The first two examples, I could believe that a Matria was actually using her connection to the Weave, but the last one seems iffy. I remember that quest, but I don't think there was any indication of that particular one using those powers. The way she fights you is pretty much identical to other NPCs such as Palehusk Devils in Crimson Badlands. |} This might sound weird, but here's my reasoning of why I see the word "Consort" differently. In our language, it tends to have sexual connotations, but I don't feel like it does in Aurin culture. For one, it's not gender specific. This is one of those positions that Aurin of either gender can hold. Two, while Matria and Consorts can be lovers, I don't think they choose them based on sexual desirability. There are definitely strict gender roles in their society, but I don't think this is an area where male sexual exploitation applies. I admit my views on this might be more personal bias than evidence. But I just don't remember getting that vibe when I was questing on the Exile side. I do enjoy how you take areas that most people vilify the Dominion for and show ways in which the Exiles behave similarly, but I'm a butthead and feel the need to question things I don't agree with, even if I'm proven wrong in another reply. :P (So many quotes within quotes!) Edited January 16, 2016 by Spider Bro Jenkins | |} ---- |} But there is no gender/social inequity in other factions at all except for the Cassians who are the Dominion itself. The only other 2 races allowed to call themselves part of Dominion are Drakken and Chua so far while the rest of planets unnamed as of yet are considered to be Vassal states. | |} ---- Not exactly. The Luminai weren't built to be worshipped, they were built to be rulers. The Eldan were already controlling their empire from nexus through the mechari. Long before any talk of godhood was sent to Cassus. The empire wasn't created to stop the humans from rivaling them, it was created to bring order to the universe. The humans were chosen because of their potential. All the qualities that would have allowed a potential rivalry allowed them to be an ideal backbone of their empire. But humans were only the second option. Only after it was clear that the Osun were too rebellious to be the backbone of an empire ruled by the Eldan. | |} ---- This is so ignorant as to be absurd. Every faction has social inequity of some kind. Your characterization of the Dominion is likewise ridiculous. In Durek Stonebreakers own words, the Dominion is filled with "countless worlds", which are all full members of the Dominion. There ARE also planets that are not yet part of the Dominion but are trying to join. But in no sense are worlds "vassal states". In the imperial worlds, resources are distributed equitably through out, as is education and healthcare. The Quality of life of the least among the Dominion worlds is lightyears above the Exiles. yup, the Luminai were made to keep Eldan genetics in the Dominion, and to guide the Dominion. They were not and do not "control" anything except as political figureheads and in leadership positions. The Mechari could be said to have controlled the rise and continued prosperity of the Dominion, but even they don't "control" the empire. The Dominion is ruled by the Current Emperor and his council, which at present includes a Chua, Draken, Mechari, High Born, and Low Born Cassian. Edited January 16, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- A- But it is not ignorant nor absurd. The differences between the 2 are clear; The Dominion, more specifically the Cassians are influenced by a Victorian England high class society with a Medieval Era Christianity Church and the Aussies who are lowborn. While on the Exiles, it is the American Wild West where everything is trying to kill you and there aren't enough people to deal with it. Yet, you see the social inequity more clearly on the Dominion side with various Cassian nobles but on the Exiles side there is no social inequity. Every race in Exiles is working on a goal objective and ask you to help them in reaching that quota. Any journal you pick up relating to Exiles don't have any hate or bias written towards each other while the Cassians obviously do. In fact you hardly see any social inequities on the Exile side while on the Cassians it smacks you in the face first. B- Edited January 16, 2016 by Peacekitty | |} ---- Yes it's absurd... " move forward with the Cassian Initiative. They are sufficiently advanced to have warranted our attention, and analysis indicates that they will be perfect leaders for our new empire; one that will rule the galaxy " The Cassians were chosen to LEAD the empire. That's why the Eldan mixed their genetics with their own to produce Dominus. Your characterizations are extremely confused... you do realize there was tremendous social inequity in the "wild west"? Just as there is in the Exile Humans. They have different social classes just as any other society, and there is animosity between them. In particular the Judges come to mind, but there are plenty of examples, and of course the animosity between exile races is just as if not more tangible than in the Dominion. Heck, there is nearly an all out war between the Aurin and Mordesh in Celestion (Arwick nearly kills Victor...). I honestly don't believe you've ever played a Dominion character all the way through. Because what you see most often is social status meaning nothing in the face of valor and merit. Major arcs are based on powerful low born and non-cassians. There's verbal quips and snips, but all the races work together in mutual respect, unlike the constant arguments between Exile races that leads to a "ravaging of arboria" against the Torine in Celestion and nearly destroying Nexus in a squirg-ocalypse in Whitevale. And what the literal CUPCAKE are you talking about? There are journals detailing Aurin HATING their nobility (the Matrias / Queen)... Edited January 16, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- ... Did we play completely different games? Because that doesn't match what I remember of the Godwood storyline. I certainly remember them disagreeing about the Vital Life extraction, but I don't remember either of them fighting or even threatening to fight with each other. The violence was between the Mordesh and the Torine. | |} ---- A) And you aptly chose to ignore the rest of the information I gave you on the Luminai project. Read all of it as I'm not bothered to re-write all of it, especially the first datacube. Eldan chose human for a galactic empire nobody knows why with the 2 optons; Kneel or Die. I don't consider that a choice by default. B) Judges? Really? See C C) I don't believe you played the Exiles all the way through and the Dominion. Point A: There is never a time questing all the way through to Galeras and beyond hinting or pointing social inequity towards each other nor through NPC label in Exiles. You mention Animosity in the humans referencing Judges, however you forget that the Judge was called in because the DARKSPUR CARTEL was busy terrorizing and controlling the poor town in question who's local lawmen were brutally murdered already. Point B: Auroria is rife with social inequity and in Deradune. Even in Everstar grove there is sign of obvious incompetence in command with Highborne(The Guy literally orders a team of chuas to murder themselves for a bunch of honey for his afternoon tea while casually setting the forest on fire) Point C: Animosity between Aurin and Mordesh: You mean the Queen who gets ticked off at Victor for ignoring her and continuing his plans to use the Primal life in his desperate search for the cure? Because she doesn't mobilize or demand the entire Aurin race to suddenly hate or spit on the Mordesh. In fact, she quickly acts on the situation and has you work on count-measures to heal the damage Victor does. Just because one person ends up not liking what the other person does, doesn't mean sudden animosity between 2 races, it would have to include the majority of the race to count. Aurin hating their queen: What do you expect when an entire race/civilization that is reliant on natural forests gets shoved into a spaceship and then forced to endure a hostile alien environment until they land on Nexus? The entire incident on Arboria lays squarely on the Queen's actions who was still young and naive. Of course some of the Aurins will blame their current situation on the Queen who ultimately and single-handily decided their fate however most are looking past that now and are looking to rebuild on Nexus or look for a possibility in going back to Arboria, They had no say in accepting the Exiles, but they also had no say when the Dominion came in with "Anyone who aids Exiles must die" policy (Which is absently missing with Protostar, Ekoses and other unnamed Corporations). In the end those who did not agree with the Queen moved on and you see them scattered in various areas such as Deradune, Whitevale, Malgrave establishing themselves as an independent community. Point D: Auroria - You test the cure in front of a lowborn (forced to stand and watch) on a wolf and sheep that explode then on lowborn. Then you use the cure on the highborns, while you send the Governors message to the lowborn the cure is in need of testing and mass production which then you haphazardly apply the cure on the poor citizens in which some of them were clearly beyond saving without a proper medical officer nearby who are later sent to rebuild the silos you burned down. You also get to meet Lord Syrus who aptly writes a "friendly reminder" to the lowborn citizens of Gildegrass province. In fact everywhere else you go the highborn quest givers often snob at you (Especially those religious nutheads). I think the most amusing part of the dominion, is that you watch in irony as the ICI's top agent murder a Luminai that the Clanlord smooches all over for "treasonous conspiracy". As for valor and merit? The only person deserving of that is Toric who takes the charge into Kel Voreth and smashes the warherald down with only 4 men (And 4 warbots) while the rest of the dominion sits back sipping tea and relies on YOU to clean up the mess while the GOLD LEGION SITS IDLY. The Clanlord and Lex are keen to ignore the Exiles unless someone important is knocking on the front door (Luminai Councilor who then ironically gets murdered by ICI) and then its up to Mondo who is the self proclaimed Expert on Aurins to murder the Aurins (Also having his expendable assistant have key-need-to-keep-on-hand-classified-codes-for-artillery-strike-approval) while you go and chase after the Clanlord's most hated nemesis that gets ticked when you ask him questions on it. Most of the time their hated Enemies are right next door to their supposed protected territories and ignored until you are there to save the day quite literally. | |} ---- ---- Exiles are traitors to the Dominion. They are not the heirs to Nexus, the Dominion is. The Exiles gave up their claim to Dominion heritage when they launched a massive terrorist attack on their innocent fellows and tried to destroy the Dominion. I have 4 toons at 50, 2 Dominion Medics (Chua / Cassian) and an Aurin Stalker and Mordesh Engineer. I took my Chua through Deradune and my Cassian through Ellevar, and I took my Aurin through Celestion and my Mordesh through Algoroc. All of them are at least up to Omnicore-1 in terms of world story and have all of the regional quest lines (not necessarily the side tasks) done. Yes the judges are absolutely idiotic. They have no formal training and have power based solely on seniority. They don't follow laws, but make them up as they go along, leading to some seriously questionable ethical dilemmas that are overlooked because the people you help are on the "winning" side of their caprices. I'm not going to waste time with all your silly points, but yes Toric is the BEST example of valor, but so is Corrigan Doon, and the chua Legionare Ringo Hax during the strain Arc. Major Aurelies also makes a whole lot of difficult decisions to save a lot of people in Whitevale... Heck even MONDO saves the world several times (inc. in Whitevale with the Exile caused squirg armagedon). Kezerek Warbringer saves Nexus on Farside..... The Dominion is FULL of examples of valor, heck even the Emperor and High Priestess of the VC have displayed substantial acts of valor... And Lex took out the Luminai governor because he was plotting to get innocent Citizens killed to further his political goals. He was a member of the ghost house (House Chaul), the same house that poisoned Emperor Jarec of House Azrion to claim the Throne and thrust the Dominion into its "Dark Days". Lex killed two birds with one stone, taking him and the Granok Terrorist out... It's what Lex does, he's a super secret agent ... Just like the Exiles, the Dominion has some bad eggs in it's ranks.... and the Dominon makes every effort to stop corruption and abuse of power. You help Toric stop the rogue Priest in Ellevar, Lex stop the traitor Luminai in Deradune, Voriona Cazalon stops the old corrupt High Priest herself, and Emperor Myrcalus deposes Emperor Vorios the False after obtaining irrefutable proof that Vorios of House Chaul had poisoned his predecessor..... Kezerek Warbringer likewise saved his best friend (and former leader of the Legions) from dishonour... Courage, Valour, and nobility are a BIG deal in the Dominion, much more so than in the Exiles. Edited January 17, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- ---- Nazryn I've gotten used to your warped perception making you see and say pretty strange and honestly hilarious angles of story elements and I think most who know your posting history do as well. I just wanted to say that this, this right here takes the cake. :D | |} ---- A) Explain further then how the Judges are idiotic through examples then please. Also have you done all the scientist path missions or collected all the datacubes? Thats most important part in collecting lore. B) The Exiles and Dominion both save each other because you nearly do the same thing because the content provided is mirrored and matched accordingly. There is no "Dominion" saving the day as much as there is "Exiles" saving the day, each side does its own part in combating the issues both sides create. C) The Granok wasn't a terrorist. He was in charge of a MINING operation who the Clanlord has a grudge on (He claims the mining op as an invasion to the Councilor.. Really?) and Lex uses that opportunity to fuel the Dominion propaganda that Exiles are savage terrorists that only seek to destroy the dominion to cover up the ICI's assassination. Whether or not Vorios actually brought the dominion closer to the days of Tyrani is questionable because the only source is from TBTF, and unless we can get more sources I still stand mute on Vaelyn's intentions. Yes the dominion makes every effort to stop corruption and abuse of power, as long the subordinate is willing to stand up to the corruption and abuse taken and turns their superior in. Nobility often abuse their power and position and never takes responsibility of their actions. You didn't help Toric stop the rogue priest, you merely brought justice to his actions (Stopping would imply stopping the poisoning of the pell.. Which didn't happen). You didn't help Lex stop the Councilor, you end up walking into the crime scene after a distress call made from the camp (Then used by Lex to set up his cover). Courage and Valor stronger in Dominion? You mean falsifying the truth and then claiming it "Courage and Valor". | |} ---- I think both sides should just leave Nexus alone because there are already other sentient races occupying it and pretty much all of them aren't interested in sharing space. I do agree that both technically have rights to claim it, but the Dominion would have a better claim than the Exiles. At the very least, the Luminai would have the strongest claim and they are part of the Dominion. I also feel like the Exiles rejected the Eldan's legacy (which is actually pretty horrible, damn hubris) by splitting off from the Dominion. There's some fun debate that can happen because Drusera did technically lead Dorian Walker to Nexus, but it's not like she rejects your help if you're on the Dominion side. All in all, I think either perspective is valid in terms of claims unless we can ask either Drusera or an Eldan about this. Though I guess most people aren't happy with such a vague response because only whatever side one is arguing for has to be right and everyone else is crazy. :lol: If the content is mirrored, then I feel like your argument is that both sides save the day about equally in-game. Is this true or am I misinterpreting? According to the Dominion perspective, all Exiles are terrorists. Also, the mining operation was built on Dominion territory in Deradune. If the Dominion tried to take over a region in Celestion, that would also be an infringement on Exile territory. Actually, that did happen. Razen the Preyfinder occupied a small part of Celestion. Also, I disagree that Lex is ever used to fuel Dominion propaganda. I would agree if you had used Axis Pheydra instead, but Agent Lex works in the shadows. Most Dominion citizens are unaware of what he does (most of it at least). I'm not sure Pheydra is in the public eye often but I feel like she at least spins propaganda from behind the scenes. Also, the claim that the Exiles seek to destroy the Dominion has some truth to it. Serrick Brightland literally did want to destroy the Dominion. Most likely not kill everyone, but he wanted to take out the leaders at least. Durek Stonebreaker pretty much said that he wanted to destroy the Dominion in Galeras during the Falkrin War. In response to the corrupt priest, I'm sure Toric would have stopped him if he announced his intention to poison the Pell . . . but he kinda did that in secret which is why everyone was surprised. Even if you couldn't stop the event from happening, you did prevent future ones from happening again by taking out the corrupt priest. I actually think this is a really good quest chain because it shows that the Dominion does not approve of such actions. As for the Councilor, this is once again a case of you literally not being aware of what is happening until it happens. Edited January 17, 2016 by Spider Bro Jenkins | |} ---- You suggest the Exile Humans are NOT traitors to the Dominion? You perhaps suggest that Brightlands Rebellion never happened? That Brightland didn't kill thousands of innocent dominion citizens in a bid to overthrow the empire? The Warped perception you're reffering to is objectivity. I know its hard for most people, especially when it's much easier just to pretend tropes, stereotypes, and heurestics are reliable substitute for real understanding.... There's a poignant buddhist metaphor for this situation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSlvBuovLv8 This is a pretty great assessment, I highlights a few things because I find the points to be very important. The only comment i've got is that the only reason Drusera brought Walker to Nexus was desperation, as the Eldan ascended, she is technically the God of the Dominion... so there's some interesting stuff with that too :3 I'll also note that Pappy, in several interviews has suggested that the Dominion claim to Nexus is rightful. P.S., since people can't tell by my profile pic, yes I have maxed Scientist, all cubes, and (almost) all the lore entries collected. I've been deep into this games lore since the end of Open Beta. Edited January 17, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- ---- I agree with you that Nexus was discovered and settled by the Exiles first, but all the other natives were here before the Exiles. Both factions are actually invading Nexus, in my opinion. The whole "official" claim to Nexus is a big grey area, and I agree with you that Drusera is one of the few people who would have the right to decide. Though I can get into nitty gritty about her claim as well because the Osun were around before her, but it just feels silly to me to get into that. Thank you for correcting my misinterpretation! I agree with you on this point that you were used by Agent Lex. As for the priest situation, I think that most people just assumed that he wouldn't have malicious intentions so even if he was acting weird, they didn't expect it would lead to poisoning the Pell. I also do kinda wish that the whole questline didn't end in you massacring the Pell. Like I wish there would have been a way to communicate that the perpetrator was bought to justice and reparations were made for the damage he did. But I'm still glad you get the clear message, that what the priest did was wrong. I suppose you are right in the sense that future crimes will always occur, but I think punishing the ones that happen at least send the message that there will be consequences to such things. Edited January 18, 2016 by Spider Bro Jenkins | |} ---- Everything else in spiders post is great, but I have to disagree with both of you HERE. Long before Walker was brought to Nexus in a desperate bid by Drusera, the Millenial Mechari and Luminai Dominus were born and worked on Nexus. Dominus' children (the Luminai) are rightful heirs to the planet by birth, which, need I remind you was literally built from scratch by the Eldan to complete the Genesis Prime (aka. Drusentity) for the Dominion . There are living members of the Dominion (e.g. Axis Pheydra) who worked on Nexus ~2000 years ago. While Pheydra's memories of the location and nature of Nexus were wiped (as were those of all Millenial Mechari) she still posesses Omega level access to the Nexus mainframe. So when it comes to settlements / who got there first. The Dominion is in the right, and current citizens were on Nexus long before the Exiles, and even coeveal to and preceeding the Osun. Some people also consider Tresayne Toria and her Torine Blade Sisters to represent an offshoot of the Dominion on Nexus... This is probably a more contentious point, as their goals have shifted to protecting the planet and it's primal life, but there is an argument both ways for this one. Edited January 18, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- A- Your views on the Exiles are highly misleading yet again. Are Exiles terrorists? I would say so yes with the Black hoods but only with the Black Hoods (Nobody controls Avra and Avra does what she pleases like Mondo). However, for the majority no they aren't terrorists. Is it right to call the Aurins who were forced out of their planet by not their own will terrorists? Is it right to call the Mordesh terrorists for refusing to accept their fate to be all but wiped out with no hope of seeking a cure? Lowborns who lost their civil war and no longer has any foothold in Cassus but simply forced to drift in space on borrowed time terrorists? When you are driven your homes, pursued endlessly without rest, reason or peace.. Is it still reasonable to call them Terrorists? No, of course not. Majority of Exiles worked endlessly and tirelessly to find a new home without involving anyone else to get away from the Dominion and Dominion kept pushing. Of course the Exiles will fight back and try and stop the Dominion. And what huge amounts of innocent blood is on their hands? Are they constantly running around suicide bombing people in Illium? Are they purposely seeking to harm innocent citizens of the dominion? Of course not, only Avra Darkos is willing to go the extreme because Mondo Zax certainly isn't going to wake up one day with a Angelic moral change. The rest of the Exiles are trying rebuild what they lost and re-enjoy what was denied to them for centuries.. Proper food, fresh air, solid ground and a warm home. The fact you continuously act as if the Exiles are simply a faction that only seeks to harm and destroy the dominion is highly obnoxious. B - Is it okay for the Exiles to end the world? No, but they did know the squirg was underneath the ground? Again, no. The Exiles are specifically willing to work even beyond looking past the dominion to ensure the planet doesn't blow up either through Mondo or the crazy experiments of the Eldan or OS-1s (FCON sent the Lancers in to deal with the fire elemental in Kel voreth if the dominion didn't knowing the full risks). C- Of course they are citizens, but their job is soldiers who are tasked with dealing the mercs. Naturally the Granoks as Mercenaries would be given jobs to fight and kill the dominion military forces, and under standard military ROE a citizen is classified as a friendly target that has no hostile arms (Which is what I meant with soldiers, please use your common sense). Toric didn't arouse suspicion because of Zin, he aroused suspicion because he kept passing menial tasks to his corporal who got mad at it. In fact I am more suspect of the drakken next to Zin considering she has more attachment to her bodyguard than Toric (As seen when you nearly kill him). If the Corporal is willing to suspect his commander for menial tasks (Which is naturally something the lower ranks are supposed to do and not an Officer's job) then why not a lone priest? Yes there are priests outside the town but these are priests with protection, while this priest goes out of the town alone with no due cause (You actually see him standing and giving sermons in the church indicating likely his job was a pastor hence my pell preaching opinion). D- You said only Lex falsified the truth but only for the Luminai. But then there is the Vigilant Church who has actively refused to acknowledge the truth that the Eldans weren't gods but created A God. Throughout the various meetings with the Church you actively see its followers who are completely out of the loop and so rooted in the false worship. One good example is the Ascendancy, where if you read the Enigma reports of Ellevar they knew about them, but when you go to Whitevale nobody knows what the Ascendancy is except for Toric who doesn't bother to tell you or his followers. E- No, the Luminai were not needed for Genesis Prime. The Genesis Prime was achieved by combining 6 Eldan each with a massive amount of primal energy then fused together (Hence the Protocol experiments), while the Luminai was an experiment to make the perfect offspring between Human and Eldan in order to build an Empire for the Eldan. The Mechari were created to observe and monitor the worlds outside of Nexus as well as act on behalf of the Eldan who were busy with the Nexus Project. The goal of Nexus was Drusera, not Luminai or Mechari. Everything the Eldan built and contributed was solely for Genesis prime and being the ever lasting achievement and legacy of their race, being even named after the oldest Eldan God. Tresayne Toria has no claim to Nexus, she was merely used as a tool to create Dominus and then was left to die by the Eldan after her use was over just like the Mechari and Luminai were merely tools and puppet. Drusera being the last of the Eldan per say, and being the legacy of the Eldan as well witnessing their final moments is the heir to Nexus. She is literally the living embodiment of the work the Eldan did on the planet, and she is technically most likely the next and last Archon of the Eldan (Jariel never mentions a successor to his position which is quite odd but I'm sure he would have liked Drusera to be the next head). | |} ---- Edited January 19, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- Um, Technically yes. ALL exile Humans either were part of the terrorist attack on the Dominion, or are the children of those who did (And continue to do so). The Aurin are guilty of abetting the terrorists, which makes them just as guilty as far as the Dominion is Concerned ( and notably as far as OUR laws would be concerned too ). One groups freedom fighter is another groups terrorists. I'm not saying every single Exile is a vicious murderer, just as not every Dominion citizen is a Proud Church goer... but legally the whole lot are criminals / terrorists as far as the dominion is concerned |} This. The term "terrorist" is a relative term. But it's an applicable one for the Exiles when looking through the eyes of the Dominion. Lowborn who lost their civil war and who no longer have any foothold in Cassus but are simply forced to drift in space on borrowed time can be and in this case, absolutely are terrorists. (From the Dominion perspective) They attempted to and nearly succeeded in tearing down the empire. When that failed, they fled and immediately allied with enemies of the empire who's M.O. it was to look for any excuse to attack them empire. Now one may be tempted to make the argument that the Granok aren't terrorist because they are soldiers but this is where the relativity of the term applies. Because any terrorist organization is going to have it's self appointed soldiers. It doesn't preclude them from being terrorists. So, what then is the difference between a soldier and a terrorist, if any? That answer comes down to a question of recognized legitmacy. From Englands perspective, the rebelling colonies were terrorist-like unitl they were recognized as a legitimate government. We have RL terrorist (defined by the general international opinion of them) organizations today who are actively seeking recognition as legitimate governments from the U.N. Which, if successful, would be much to the shagrin of those legitimate governments that are on bad term with the (current) terrorist organizations. Because there is no higher authority over the Dominion, there is no one to tell the Dominion that an organization who almost tore them down and who continues to look for any excuse to attack them, is legitimate. Especially an organization who, at the very least, is rooted in outlaws who went on the run. And have continued to fight the empire into next generations. Trying to eliminate the Aurin and the Mordesh from the status the Exiles share is no different than trying to eliminate anyone who joins up with a RL terrorist organization. Whether they new it was happening or not, they are part of that organization and share it's status. Now, the discovery of Drusera does provide the possibility for a higher authority to declare the Exiles as legitimate. This would not neccesarily end hostilities, as it could simply go from a nation fighting a terrorist organization to a nation at war with another legitimate nation. In order for there to be peace, both sides would have to want it. But current lore states that both sides agree that reconciliation is impossible. Something big would have to happen, lorewise, to alter that view on both ends. Perhaps the Entity would have to decimate both factions before they would be able to fully unite. | |} ---- ---- This is a really great explanation Medic! But would you argue that a group (e.g. Brightland and his lieutenants) launching a surprise attack on their fellow citizens (e.g. Dominion populace) to enact social / political change (e.g. reverse the Vigilant Decree) through threat of violence would not count as ANY form of terrorism? I would posit that at the time, it would certainly have been considered domestic terrorism in the legal eye of the Dominion. (since others here have confused it, suggesting the Exiles are terrorists in the Dominion's legal perspective doesn't preclude the Dominion from being terrorists in the Exiles legal perspective). Edited January 19, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- It would seem that attempting to affect the conduct of the government by mass destruction and assassination does count. This is why I would disagree with the idea that comparing either faction to the term "terrorist" ignores the definition. It's not simply a matter of each side arbitrarily defining the term however they wish, it's a matter of the action(s) fitting common RL understanding of the term. The situations in the lore don't ignore the definition, they fulfill it. And, as you said Nazryn, it doesn't preclude a similar POV from the Exiles. But it does demonstrate that the Dominion has a valid POV. At least according to current RL standards. side note: There is currently a major RL terrorist group with self proclaimed statehood that is considered a terrorist group by the greater world population. Which cleanly demonstrates the concept of 'legitimacy'. | |} ---- |} A- What terrorist attack? You keep going on and on about "Terrorism" stemming from Brightland's rebellion YET CLEARLY in the written timeline Brightland DID not attack the civilian population but help aid and become the leader of the Rebellion who started a civil war with the military who chose deadly force in subduing the ensuing protests and clashes stemming from Vigilant/Ancestral decree which was both unjust and false. Yes there is no cure for the contagion but they have at least found a way to at least prevent it from spreading. But what if the Dominion chose to help or provide some help in stemming the contagion? The cure could have been found already with the help of the Mechari and the knowledge base of Nexus. Instead they chose to bury Grismara and the Mordesh who thought the Dominion were allies (Due in short of becoming official dominion member) were forced to seek other means when Victor managed to at least stall the contagion and prevent it from spreading. B- Really, so a child who had no part in the civil war lost and is forced to live and die in a cryopad through 3 centuries is to be called a terrorist when there only crime was being a son of a freedom fighter. Because once you are labelled a terrorist you and everyone after you is a terrorist now? By that definition everyone in America are terrorists, Everyone who was part of Che's revolution and every free french survivors and their familial line are terrorists today because they were labelled as terrorists in their time I guess. No of course not, that is completely and absolutely ridiculous. C- Do you know why I keep comparing Avra to Mondo? Because Mondo does what he pleases. Nobody but the emperor has control over Mondo Zax or DREDplex and he who builds the biggest nuke wins the war. Both Avra and Mondo are off the hinge and often takes extreme if not completely innane measures and ideas to deal with situation at hand often including the death of their assistants without concern. Axis is far different in that she prefers efficiency and usually relies on Lex to do a clean job while Mondo and Avra often overkills the entire situation. D- Am I saying the Exiles are entlrely good? No. I see that both factions are morally grey and have been doing so but there are reasons and facts in the game that point otherwise that muddle the moral grey area. You keep referencing the Exiles through the dominion side which is not entirely true and the Exiles are more than the "terrorists" that Dominion declares to be when we know from the Exiles side they aren't. We must stand at the line that divides each side and see them as they are; Rebels and Empire. As for your Exile examples no of course not. The Mordesh Alchemists in Ellevar weren't there to deliberately attack the Dominion (Toric would have rallied the entire legion or would've hulk smashed them by the time you landed otherwise) but to study the region for a clue to contagion (And ignoring safety regulations since they have no need being "zombies"). The Exiles in entirety are not to be blamed for Auroria as incident WAS solely done by Avra's personal whim. As burning farms? The DREDPLEX was BUILT as a Farm village as camouflage to hide itself. No the complex itself held no biological chemicals that led to the plague itself; The DREDPLEX held military technology as well as a means to make wolverines that the XAS decided to steal in their ongoing needs to match dominion technology (Fight fire with fire until Mondo builds a bonfire). The Exiles as a faction are never there to "Burn down villages", they are simply there doing their own things with Avra taking a step further (One could say the Auroria plague was retaliation for the Chua chemical attack on Galeras farms). E- The squirg already existed as seen on Farside and it was referenced that the Eldan actually buried the Squirg due to their initial use of the terraformer in the highly unstable region. How is it the fault of XAS that they didn't know what is underneath the earth when I could say the same for the Collegium? Neither side had any tangible strides especially for the Collegium who might I remind you are continously being hampered by the Church. F- How about you replay the arc too then? The Corporal didn't immediately call out Toric with Zin and neither did Toric's journal mentioned anything about Zin. It was only when Kevos tells you Zin is missing and the journal entry for today is missing when Toric kept daily routine of his job jotted down by the hour and minute that the Corporal immediately jumped to the conclusion Toric could be out there with Zin. Again, the reason why the Corporal demanded the Commander to be investigated was he thought he was slacking off like the usual snobs in charge and wasn't trying to do his job and breaking his vows/oaths to the church. if that can happen to Toric, then why not the PASTOR who is STANDING in the CHURCH. Yes there are priests out there in the field but these are priests who are assigned to various detachments who are stationed in various areas investigating the Eldan disappearance, while this priest's station was IN the church. That is what I'm pointing out. G- Yes the Eldan were close to gods but they created life through technology. That would calling the Scientists today creating clones "Gods" which isn't accurate. That is why they sought to create A god that could create life and anything else through pure will alone. NO, Toric is NOT with you when his brother augments himself, you leave him for dead but he still manages with his dying breath to augment himself and went on to create the Ascendancy while you had to write a report for Toric on why his brother is suddenly dead. Yes, i remember these quest as they were. H - Again, no re-read on the Luminai Project and Ellevar region. The Luminai were not A project or part of Phase 1 and indeed were not needed at all. It was a side project or most likely something Jariel wanted to do after the creation of Drusera considering the very needed designs came from not Eldan but another party. The Protocols required vast amount of raw primal energy concentrated together for fusion, but the Eldan had no idea if it was possible and thus the Phase 1 of Nexus was to being with the Shapers terraforming various regions to build up those energies with Ellevar being one of the regions that later brought the Eldans to Phase 2 with the creation of focus and protocols which lead to Phase 3 and Genesis Prime. The living beings were experimented on and created to test through terraforming the region with primal energy and fusing them indirectly by nature or unbalance by terraformer and this provided the intelligence needed for the creation of the Focuses.. NOT Luminai. Luminai and Cassian Initiative was said to be highly controversial most likely because it meant the Eldans mixing their own primal pattern with a lesser species for an empire which had no need or want in the Nexus Project. The ultimate motive and needs as well as why specifically the need TO create an empire is still unclear though it may have to do with the "party" or race Jariel had contacts with to which Zarkonis (Or Nazerik? I cant get these 2 lunatics right) figured out somehow and tampered with the Genesis prime project. Why, again the biggest mysteries of the Eldan are yet to be revealed but the answers are most likely in Zin's head but not accessible right now. And no, the Mechari were not essential the project or had no part in the project itself at all except acting as the 2 way radio. For the most part they were going around surveying and "evolutionizing" various species they deemed worth to uplift (Chuas for one example). J - In the 2nd quest in which you visit Exo Lab Prime the Caretaker himself says Drusera isn't Eldan and Drusera replied stating she was much more than Eldan. Drusera is not a ascended form of the Eldan who were fused together but a new life form created that is for all intents and purposes a God. Yes, she is made of Eldan, but is she not THE Eldan as it was only 6 Eldan and the Archon deemed that she should be created with the best minds of the Orders to ensure that they get a better result. She is a creation of THE Eldan, but she is also the legacy that the Eldan created and is the living embodiment of Eldan(90% Eldan and 10% other to be more precise) technology. The Orders then were tasked to train and teach her how to wield her powers as a God creating friends wiith various Eldans. Yes the Luminai by genetics and being part of Jariel has a birthright, but Drusera is the last living member of the 6 orders thus has full rights to the planet as it is where she was also "born" on and her homeworld for centuries (With unfortunate issues). The Eldan did not ascend, they were wiped out or corrupted by the strain. | |} ----